gt.com: how did you, as an A&R Rep at one time, determine when you found the right person to offer a record deal?

JUSTIN: For me, I feel a certain sadness that would happen if I didn't sign them. It really just hits me in my gut -- it's going to make me sick that I am not working with this person. That's really the best way to decide. You can't really get it all at once -- because someone could be beautiful but miss the musical element. And someone could be highly musical, but maybe they are not that attractive. It's a difficult thing to try and quantify; it really just has to be a gut reaction.

gt.com: speaking of  looks -- how important is image in the music industry?

JUSTIN: Well, it is unfortunately more important than it ever has been in history. It's true when MTV aired the video for "Video Killed the Radio Star" -- it really has killed the radio star. It's hard to imagine that in today's market that some of the superstars of yesteryear -- the Chris Cross' and whatnot -- these are people who had amazing voices for radio and hit songs. I don't mean to pick on Christopher Cross, but it was a different era before everything was marketed like Britney Spears. A lot of people know that Britney had pre-recorded tracks that were created for her by her producers when she walked in the studio. The whole business has really evolved much more towards showmanship -- people who can put on great live shows but don't necessarily have the chops as a musician...it's not as important as it used to be. It's very important to look great -- sometimes somebody can have an amazing song and make a really great record, but they don't have what it takes visually. Case in point: we just had a girl come into this office who is a fantastic singer, but she was not exceptionally attractive. In the current market, if she were attractive, I would immediately be able to get her a record deal. But, because she's not, it doesn't mean it is impossible, but it does mean she really needs to back up what she is doing with grassroots effort and support before she can go out and just get a record deal.

gt.com: it's more difficult, but not impossible. okay, what is the one thing you want aspiring musicians to know to avoid when pursuing a career in the industry?

JUSTIN: When they are first starting their careers, many people make the mistake of going out too early. It's actually pretty easy to get a record deal -- what's really hard is getting people to forget that first impression. You really only have a short window to let everyone know that you are alive, breathing, making music, and trying to be noticed. Everyone will listen once. Even if you are in the middle of Orlando or in the middle of anywhere, A&R people are paid a lot of money to go to every little uprising all across the country and the world, so it is not hard to get signed and noticed. What's hard is for people to forget something that is mediocre and then have you come back in three months or a year later and say, "Okay, well now the demo is done and it's amazing." A lot of people make the mistake of going out first to A&R people and lawyers and making some noise, but then they get better a couple months later and say, "Well, it wasn't really ready." You really want to wait until you are ready before you reach out for an evaluative presence at your shows.

gt.com: great point! where do you see the industry heading within the next five years, with the introduction of new technology like MP3s and downloads?

JUSTIN: I think it's probably going to be a combination of things. I think certainly artists that tour and rely on touring and merchandising for more of their revenue are going to be safer. The business is sort of shifting into kind of a more "Dave Matthews Band-model." These are guys that had careers before they were with a record company and then record companies made them bigger. They were already big -- they already had a great support and groundswell of fans who had already evaluated what they were doing. The record companies kind of came on after the fact and became the phenomenon-absorbing machines.

gt.com: speaking of the record companies, what are your feelings about their fight against downloaded music?

JUSTIN: I say that the record companies aren't about discovering talent anymore, most of the record executives that work with them wouldn't know a hit song if it fell on their head with a piano. They have no clue what makes great music -- all they know how to do is sign something that is already selling records. Then, they can blame it on the market if something goes wrong. Unfortunately, record companies have evolved to a point where they are pretty gutless and soulless and just grab on to a lot of the independent success stories. I think record companies, for better and for worse, are not going away. There are always going to be record companies -- just because people are file sharing and not paying for music in the same way they used to doesn't mean that record companies are going to go away. But certainly, their budgets are shrinking and their numbers are getting smaller. It's a scary thing for the music business, because there is all this doubt that there will only be one or two major labels. A lot of the campaigning against people file sharing music is really stupid, because the RIAA and the government have come up with this crazy idea -- they are going to prosecute music lovers and sue so many people that they are going to scare them and make them paranoid to download anything. It's so silly, because there are music fans and music lovers who are the ones that are downloading this stuff. It's not like they are real music pirates back when people would download 42nd Street in Indonesia and make lots of illegal copies. They are really, in most cases, college students that are just collecting their favorite artist and downloading music that they will end up going to concerts and buying anyway.

gt.com: you mentioned Dave Matthews Band as a group able to survive the changes in the industry. are there other musicians you have seen that you think will have a stronger shelf-life despite the changes?

JUSTIN: I still think that great music is going to shine through no matter what. The downloading issue is complicated, because it has hurt sales considerably all over the world. This is a billion dollar industry where everyone is chained and affected -- from retail to the recording studio to equipment manufacturers to the artists and songwriters. Especially the songwriters, who really don't get any benefit. You could always argue that Dave Matthews may lose record sales, but he makes it up in touring. But, the guy who wrote songs for Britney Spears doesn't see any benefit at any point, because it's really a different human being that gets all of the money. I think that there are a lot of artists that depend on what kind of fans they have and what genre they are in. Some artists haven't really been hurt so much by file sharing as they have been helped. There are some fans who would just rather download a bunch of songs from a particular artist or compilations that they couldn't buy even if they wanted to.

gt.com: on that note, the Internet has both aided and hurt record sales -- how do you view the Internet in terms of its power in the industry?

JUSTIN: The internet has definitely shifted the power equation completely, which is a great thing. For years, being in sort of an indie industry, it is funny, because it is kind of like seeing the bully in high school who has always been on the football team and picking on all the other kids that are pretty cool but just not as tough; you've had this twenty year reign of these guys that are jerks. They live in a very isolated world, and they all know each other. The industry had a jock mentality, it was like a very exclusive club. Then, along comes the internet and people like Shawn Fanning, who invented Napster, and he actually tried to get licenses from the record companies and they laughed and scoffed at him. They said, "Who could ever care about you distributing music on the internet? You must be kidding!" Lo and behold, it turned out to be the chunk of ice from the iceberg that gouged the Titanic. The music industry was like the Titanic -- so huge and arrogant that they never thought that the little hole like Napster could actually bring it down to the bottom of the ocean. Now, the internet does have a huge amount of power -- independent artists are really able to get their music heard. Of course, they have the same problem they always did, which is: how do you get noticed in an ocean of independents? That can be a challenge. That's what you still need money for -- whether its major record label money or not, but you certainly still need money to compete in the marketplace.

gt.com: oh, great analogy! you've had such a noteworthy and amazing career in the music industry. what was the one event in your life where you thought, "I really made it."

JUSTIN: That's a great question! There are a lot of ways to answer that -- there have been so many little moments along the way. For years, I tried to get a guy by the name of Martin Sexton signed. He is one of the most amazing folk-rock artists. He is a guy that I tried to get signed for years and years and I had a boss who just hated him. And, forever I tried to get him signed to a big record label and I had already signed him to a music publishing deal. My boss was convinced that he was ugly when he sang, that he looked like a frog, and that all of his lyrics and melodies didn't sound like real lyrics and melodies but like bar riffs -- they were aimless and went nowhere. For years, I had to endure this from my boss. Finally, a couple of years later, he gave a concert in Central Park, and there must have been 10,000 people there. Every single person knew every single word of all of his songs. He was very much a folk hero at that point to these people. And, to hear them all sing along to the lyrics that I had been the first person to hear...that was probably the one moment where I thought, "Wow, this is amazing!"

gt.com: that is  amazing! what one artist/group would you use as an example of what not to do when popularity arises?

JUSTIN: Usually what some artists do is get really successful and become a party animal and sort of think that the money that is coming in right that minute is there to stay and is going to keep coming in at that level. But, everyone, including me, thinks the exact same thing. You are always under the impression that things that are happening now are going to stay that way -- it's hard to look at the road ahead. In pop music, that situation can be really fleeting. There have been scores and scores of rappers that have rested on their laurels for a minute and just assumed they had made it. The next time the turn around, they are no longer cool. The people that do it wrong would be someone that really screwed it up -- a good example would be a classic rocker like Axl Rose. Here's a guy who was given the key to building a money machine -- practically a license to print money. Instead of taking advantage it and thinking, "Hey, this is a great thing I've stepped into. I could potentially tour and make records for as long as I like," you have creative differences, someone who does a whole lot of drugs, and pumps himself up into his own brain. There are people like Robert Duvall who get on a plane and still fly commercially -- he doesn't need a jet plane, even though he's been a movie star for over thirty years. Someone like Axl Rose, who was two years into doing videos on MTV, everything was about a private plane, a quart of Jack Daniels, and a variety of drugs. He fits the bill for someone who did everything wrong; he fought with his band members, wasn't a team player, drowned his situation in a whole lot of drugs and alcohol, and stopped appearing at shows. It's clear from his actions that he still thinks he's Jim Morrison. A decade has flown by without him standing together -- this a guy that could have made more money than Led Zeppelin every dreamed of making. Instead, he's hiding out somewhere, walking off stage in Vegas, working on a record that never comes out.

gt.com: good point -- that's a great example...

JUSTIN: Another is someone like Terence Trent D'Arby, who made a record for like five years, and doesn't move forward. He didn't want to perform live, because he was too precious. Some artists can be just too "precious" about what they do. Many artists are down-to-earth -- being a superstar does not mean that you suddenly have to turn into a jerk. I've met plenty of superstars who are entirely normal, and it's just coincidental that they happen to be this person that everyone knows and recognizes.

gt.com: in reverse, who would be the role model in perfection of the industry for the way they've handled their career?

JUSTIN: The key to doing it the right way is to stay ahead of the curve and always thinking of yourself as someone that can be out-of-date in a minute. My favorite kind of performers are people like Martin Sexton and Bob Dylan -- they are always on the road and always collaborating. You look at someone like Bono who is constantly on the edge, collaborating with artists like Wyclef. These are people who may be pop superstars, but have always considered themselves, in their own mind, in the same scrappy, down-to-earth way they were before they hit it big.

gt.com: agree or disagree: Simon Cowell of American Idol is targeted for his harsh comments towards contestants. he calls it honesty and says it is the way the industry really is.

JUSTIN: Everything about American Idol is shaken to the bone. Every shrapnel and piece of it has nothing to do with the industry at all, except for Simon's attitude. I would say that there is some degree of truth to what he says. The music industry is definitely going to be looking at someone's physical appearance and if they are attractive or not. If they aren't physically attractive and they can't sing, then yes, there is obviously going to be criticism. But, there is no paradigm that I'm aware of that people audition for record deals. You can audition people for a group, and get people to be part of a Lou Pearlman boy band or some kind of a situation where your audition is to be part of Janet Jackson's troupe. But, for as long as I remember as an A&R rep, I've never been in a situation where people are literally auditioning for a record deal. So, everything about American Idol is just kind of crazy and for the show. The way that the business really works is geared towards more of an independent structure -- industry people tend to gravitate towards artists who have already gained some independent success, rather than seeing if they are gorgeous or going to get picked for the new American Idol. Of course Simon's attitude is amplified for the show. I think much of it is really an act.

gt.com:  totally -- switching topics, tell us about your new project, indie911.com, and what you hope to accomplish with it?

JUSTIN: Indie911.com is really exciting and I am super psyched about it. Basically, it's considered the ultimate network community for the independent music business. The mission is the change the way people discover and get paid for making music. Hit a single button and immediately you'll hear great new music by genre on demand -- through free and legal audiostreams, not downloads. Each song played gets calculated into a royalty distribution system that pays artists for online "airplay." The money gets generated from their services -- this is where it gets different and exciting. It's basically what my book said, which is basically that the music industry is over, awful, totally changed forever, and is a bad system to start with. They are ripping off artists, and it has never been fair. Everything about the copyright part of it and the artist development part of it is all screwed up, and everyone knows it is, so it is finally sinking to the bottom of the ocean forever. What I do with Indie911.com is say, "Okay, let's figure out how to fix it and build a new paradigm." Let's figure out a system that we can get advertising dollars from, and then pay artists for their actual online airplay that doesn't go through all of the traditional payout fees. We just pay them directly from the advertising funds. And, then we set it up in a very savvy film and television licensing way, so it's like a big directory, kind of similar to how MP3.com was, with all of the music all over the world with different licensing rights. We join all of these different people from all over the place, like maybe a band in Kansas and a band in Orlando, and they say, "Well, I don't know anyone in Hollywood, but I would love to hear my music on a television show." What we do is put them through a series of agreements, where they agree to accept a certain fee, and we go out and get those fees for them. It's a revolutionary way to have people get discovered and paid for making music.

gt.com: how cool! you're so multitalented, you also have amazing art skills. what aspects of the music industry do your derive inspiration from in your artwork?

JUSTIN: Mostly the sadness of all of these bands -- there are so many great bands out there that never get to see the light of day in the industry. That's the saddest part of it for me, always knowing how many talented people there are. I will never forget working with a guy named Gus. He had a record coming out the same week as Beck. We had worked on him for a year and a half -- he was such a wonderful guy and really committed to his music. He worked so hard on his music and we worked so hard to have a successful record release. And, it all came down to the wrong week to release a record. His album wound up never really seeing the light of day. It was so sad, because here was a perfectly terrific artist that just had bad timing. A lot of my artwork is kind of inspired by many of these awful hidden truths about the music business -- people who have been dropped and have not had records released. And, there have been many wonderful demo tapes that the public never gets a chance to hear. The artwork kind of documents the early process.

gt.com: any last thoughts or tips for those looking to enter the music industry, whether as a singer or in the production?

JUSTIN: It's important to come at this with some sort of independent success and really do your homework. The business is just a marketplace; you kind of have to erase the idea that there is a Randy Jackson or Simon Cowell that is going to pass judgment on you. The truth is that if you have something really great going on, then those guys are going to sign you, no matter what you are doing or what you look like. The key in my mind is to have some degree of independent success, because these guys don't know anything about you, and the best arsenal to have on your side is some kind of independent activity. So, then you can say, "Hey, what do I need a record deal for? I'm already doing X, Y, and Z in my career." Even if you are an aspiring manager or lawyer, it's the same kind of situation. Eventually, everyone winds up doing A&R. It's mostly about having your own level of success so you don't need to be validated by anyone else. Even lawyers and managers are subject to A&R rules, which is that people are basically judged by what they have in their pockets coming in. They are able to say, "Hey, I'm a brand new lawyer, manager, an aspiring singer, flute player, whatever; but, I already have these relationships in my pocket." It makes a much stronger impression.

gt.com: great advice, it's easy to see why you've done so well in your career. thanks for the interview, Justin!